Apple & Windows

[[SS]Grifter]

Originally Posted by [SS]Bassani

I can get twice the PC for the cost of a Mac, just sayin...

Just made a different topic on this so as to 1) not hijack some one elses topic and 2) allow an open, respectable, unheated discussion regarding hardware and software for these systems.


So let's remember that this is coming from someone that has used Windows primarily my whole life with work, school and at home....

In regards to the above comment, you get what you pay for when you walk into a store and purchase a Dell (example) or a Mac. If you were to take the processing power from the high end iMac and equate it to what it would take for a Windows PC, they're nearly identical in price in every regard. You can't take a $700 windows computer and compare it to a $1,500 Apple iMac just based on cost alone. If you actually do some research, you'll see that the components are vastly different. You'll find less actual processing power in the $700 Windows computer. Macs laptops are typically running higher end processors than their Windows counterparts...Also, the cases of the laptops are aluminum as opposed to plastic, the Mac laptops are typically lighter and thinner and the battery life is longer lasting. A lot of people see the dollar sign and think, "why do I get that? It's $1,000 more..." Of course, because you're now comparing that $700 Yugo to a $1,500 Viper. Both have 4 wheels and move, one will just get you to your destination faster.

I can run Windows OS on my Mac OS successfully, no errors, running it virtual. Very little hassle and install time. However, it's much more difficult to run the Mac OS on Windows OS - don't get me wrong, it can be done...but there are a ton more steps involved in doing it and it's a true pain in the freakin ass.

Macs get viruses as well. The only reason that it's so commonplace in a Windows environment, in because roughly 80% of home users (guesstimate) are using windows, hence the bigger target on the back. Why aim for a flea when you can target the whole side of the barn and get a direct hit? You can be armed to the teeth with antivirus and antispyware using Windows...Where I can pretty much work at ease without any spyware at all on my Mac and probably not ever see a hint of a problem of being the target of a virus attack on my system.

Apple has better overall customer service - hands down, bar none.....It's better than Dell, better than HP, better than Sony, etc. It just is. If I have a problem, I can walk into the Apple store, they can scan the device and look up the history - instantly. There's no waiting on hold for 20-30 minutes and no technician walking me through a reboot of my PC, my router, my cable modem, etc. They just fix it.

In short....comparing Windows OS to the Mac OS is like comparing a stick shift to an automatic - respectively. One takes you many steps - one just does it on it's own. But to each their own...not everyone is comfortable with owning or using a Mac (or owning both for that matter). Sometimes they just buy the software or hardware because they have blinders on and that's all they see or know without really understanding what they're getting and getting to know what else is out there.

From a personal standpoint, I find the Mac much easier to use. It's simple and straight forward. Again, like I said earlier - I have used Windows primarily my entire life with work, school and home and having been using both my Windows computer and my Mac, I find the Mac easier, faster and a hell of a lot more user friendly.

[[SS]Sabotage]

Here's how I look at it. Mac you get a computer with an OS that works. The OS works and that's about it, you can't change much of anything on it or you will break it. Components are too complicated for being soooo simple, thus one of the reasons for price increases, not to mention apple is just a huge monopoly because they don't contract to other companies to make their systems.

With a PC you get as much computing power as you want, whether you want to render Toy Story 3 in two hours or you want to play minesweeper all day it's easy to customize your PC however you like it for a price that just makes sense.

That's the short version of how I see things with PC vs. Mac. The long version has to do with gaming, processing, processes, customization, and price.

Grift, you may find that Mac is easier to use.... but man I just don't understand why... I can't use a mac I want to right click things and I can't, I want to see the details of what I'm looking at and I can't with one click, I want to change setting on one program or process with three clicks and I can't.... I just don't get Mac OS it doesn't make sense to me. I know lots of people who buy macs because they're nice and cool, but they change their OS to windows just because of everything I just listed.

I'd say this really isn't worth discussing because it's like talking Microsoft Vs. Sony, but it really isn't PC is the most widely used computer system in the world for a reason.

[[SS]Wally]

Sab what it sounds like to me is that you don't have enough experience with a Mac. No offense bud.

Put it this way, once you learn how to use any program and you get better at it by learning the quick shortcuts etc... its like that. You learn the quick keys and your rocking.

I was using Mac's so much at my music shool job and while a student there that I forgot how to use the Windows almost. Seriously, then when I got back into Windows I have forgotten how to use a Mac but it would come back quickly. Can't wait to get a Mac again, love them.

[[SS]Grifter]

Originally Posted by [SS]Sabotage

Here's how I look at it. Mac you get a computer with an OS that works. The OS works and that's about it, you can't change much of anything on it or you will break it. Components are too complicated for being soooo simple, thus one of the reasons for price increases, not to mention apple is just a huge monopoly because they don't contract to other companies to make their systems.

With a PC you get as much computing power as you want, whether you want to render Toy Story 3 in two hours or you want to play minesweeper all day it's easy to customize your PC however you like it for a price that just makes sense.

That's the short version of how I see things with PC vs. Mac. The long version has to do with gaming, processing, processes, customization, and price.

Grift, you may find that Mac is easier to use.... but man I just don't understand why... I can't use a mac I want to right click things and I can't, I want to see the details of what I'm looking at and I can't with one click, I want to change setting on one program or process with three clicks and I can't.... I just don't get Mac OS it doesn't make sense to me. I know lots of people who buy macs because they're nice and cool, but they change their OS to windows just because of everything I just listed.

I'd say this really isn't worth discussing because it's like talking Microsoft Vs. Sony, but it really isn't PC is the most widely used computer system in the world for a reason.

Ok, so a couple of things......

The only reason Windows is where it is in the world today, is because Microsoft had no real competition at the time with MS-DOS. They also allowed damn near every hardware manufacturer on the planet to configure hardware for their OS. Windows has essentially sold itself to every hardware manufacturer (Dell, Hitachi, Sony, Toshiba, etc.) on the planet in order to get it into every household. That's how they did it.

Yes, the OS does work on a Mac - but that's not it. It runs damn near all of the Microsoft products. And to be honest, in some instances it runs them better because of the Macs processing power. Typically, the Mac has a better processor than it's Windows counterpart. Hence the cost difference, again - this is a situation of a "you get what you pay for". If you go to Dells website and you look to order a PC, they offer you a low end or midrange processor. If you want the high end processor (typically you have a choice between 2 different high end processors) like what you get with a Mac, then you add that to your cart. This can be a price increase from $150 to over $300 alone. Same thing with visdeo and sound cards.

As for customization and your right click on a Mac, and unable to do it? All that has all been changed a while back. You CAN right click with a Mac. You just need to change the mouse settings in the System Preferences. People that were moving from Windows to Mac, that was their biggest complaint. So Mac made it easy to help them out. You can also purchase the Trackpad and use 2 fingers for a right click, since it senses your touching the device with your fingers. Also, you can purchase a 2-button mouse for Mac via third party.

You mention Apple being a monopoly. Maybe that's correct and maybe it isn't. They do have exclusive control over their own product. But so does Windows, so they can also be labled in that same category since they are a single company that owns nearly all of the market for their product. Let's remember that Windows has sold their OS to several hardware manufacturers to have installed and prepackaged for people when they purchase a computer. I dunno, but to me, that sounds more like a monopoly than Apple. Windows OS on a Dell, HP, Sony, Hitachi....Apple OS on a...well, Apple computer. Which one do you think has the real monopoly?

If you're a hardcore Windows gamer, then a Windows OS computer might be your way to go - but in recent years, more and more games are also coming to Mac. You can walk into an Apple store and see them yourself. The biggest game on the planet is World of Warcraft...and it also runs on a Mac OS.

I'm not saying that Mac is better for you, or Wally, or Sporto or anyone else. Just pointing out some misleading information is out there and giving people the correct information just so that they are better informed.

[[SS]Wally]

There are some things I wouldn't do on a Mac like keep track of my business maybe or my Accounting package as my accountant uses Quickbooks so I would need my PC for that, but anything music, artist, or browsing related for me would be on the Mac.

[Rush]

IMHO Apples are for Yuppies that either would like to just state that they own an Apple or are only doing graphical design, which is the only good reason to own one.

Apples are better out of the box for graphical programs, but the cost trade off is not worth it. Building a custom pc with the same amount of money you would purchase with a mac, will yield you a computer 1.5x-2x more powerful.

[[SS]Wally]

my reasoning is mostly just for music applications which the programs were native to.

[[SS]Rator]

Ok, I think i am the longest running Mac user here. Since '90 at least.

You CAN upgrade the innards at will. Video cards, ram, hard drives etc. Its not hard, in fact it is WAY easier than a PC to upgrade. I've put stuff into my macs and built 2 PCs and trust me the mac is easier.

You CAN right click on anything. You used to have to hold control to click on something to activate the right click but the new mice are geared to have right click built in.

Macs are NOT just good for graphics. In fact, PC and Mac are equal in that respect, now anyway. The Mac is just a more simple interface for accessing the OS features.

I've never gotten a virus on my mac in over 20 years. I've never had to reinstall my system either. I dont have to format drives or download drivers.

My main machine is a mac. I also have a PC tower for gaming and a PC laptop for writing/travel etc.

[Rush]

Virus issue is a huge pro for mac. Viruses run rampid on windows machines if you go to unsafe sites.

Upgrade your video card, replace your power supply, upgrade your monitor , ect... on this

owned... lol

[[SS]Rator]

no, thats an "i"Mac. But yes i think you can do that too.

[[SS]Grifter]

You can open the iMac and upgrade your hard drive and memory...but you don't need to...it comes with a terabyte hard drive and like 4gigs of RAM (if not more) already....And as for the video card and other components, it's built like a laptop - all of that is configured to the motherboard.

However, the other Mac desktops, yes - you can upgrade all of that....So no ownage. Thanks.

[Rush]

Lol, its ironic at work we have a bunch of these and the memory and hard drive are very easy to replace. Everything else is damn near impossible on imacs. Mac pros are very easy to swap stuff in and out for the most part.

Also, I ran into several snags with video cards and drivers for macs, and not imacs.... mac pro's in our server room. I guess once the new os's come out, video card driver manufacturers struggle to keep up.

[[SS]Grifter]

Originally Posted by [SS]Rush

Lol, its ironic at work we have a bunch of these and the memory and hard drive are very easy to replace. Everything else is damn near impossible on imacs. Mac pros are very easy to swap stuff in and out for the most part.

Also, I ran into several snags with video cards and drivers for macs, and not imacs.... mac pro's in our server room. I guess once the new os's come out, video card driver manufacturers struggle to keep up.

True...but that's like that for all operating systems.....Windows is by far, no exception to that rule, unless you've forgotten all about Windows ME, Vista, 2000.....Those were nightmare systems.

[[SS]Sabotage]

Originally Posted by [SS]Rator

You CAN upgrade the innards at will. Video cards, ram, hard drives etc. Its not hard, in fact it is WAY easier than a PC to upgrade. I've put stuff into my macs and built 2 PCs and trust me the mac is easier.

Wha?! How is it easier, it took me literally 1hr combined to put my entire PC together. Here's what I do, I open the door with one hand loosened screw, I look at the port that clearly states which component goes there and I plug it in plug it in. How can anything be easier then that?

As for interface, that little widget bar or whatever annoys the shit out of me. It says somethings loading when really it means it's just been clicked and it's trying to load. While it's loading, I can't do anything because there's this little colorful wheel covering my mouse. I have two monitors, I have a window to show me everything that's going on, AIM, Vent, Pandora, and an email thingy on one screen. On the other I have a browser attached to one half of the screen and I can see it oh so clearly. on the other half of the screen I have another browser where I can watch a movie on netflix running 60 fps and have my system running as cool as ice.

Wally I know it looks like I don't have experience, but I do. We had them in my schools too and I used them, hated every minute of it. No computing power equals 10 minutes to load Safari, yes you can add computing power but like I said you are paying WAY more to do it than you would for a PC.

After I open the door on my PC I can literally slide my HDD out on wheels smoother than butter, can unplug my video card with a click of a button, can add up to 6 disk drives USB ports, or pretty much anything that will fit in seconds, I can change my power supply with two screws loosened.... It's endless.

I paid $900 for my current PC that I am using at this very moment and it runs EVERYTHING I mean EVERYTHING at full capacity. If I wanted a mac to do the same thing it would cost me roughly double even triple the price.

I'm not saying they can't be comparable, I'm simply saying PC does it cheaper, faster, and in my opinion along with many others... easier.

I've taken programming classes.... it's not fun to program for MAC AT ALL!!!! Apple tries to make things simple by creating a simple language that only works when you sample a much more difficult language to just refer back to the original MAC OS. It's a nightmare to make a simple app for an iPad, but to make a gadget or even a shitty web page that works for windows and not safari it extremely easy. Rator I know you know this. However, I have to admit Safari has been better at making it easier to code for... still not nearly as fast as google chrome. Not sure if you mac guys use chrome, but it's the bee's knees.

Originally Posted by [SS]Grifter

If you're a hardcore Windows gamer, then a Windows OS computer might be your way to go - but in recent years, more and more games are also coming to Mac. You can walk into an Apple store and see them yourself. The biggest game on the planet is World of Warcraft...and it also runs on a Mac OS.

Yes, games will come out for Mac, because people will buy it just like everything else. Does it look as good? No. Does it take more power to run? Yes. Does it come out like a year later than on PC? Yes.